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| Rumbanator
Bluegill Username: Rumbanator Post Number: 196 Registered: 3-2006  Rating: N/A |
They announced the schedules for 2009 and 2010 today, one surprise was no Falcon. Don't understand why only guess was the high post tourney fish die off. They also announced that there will be no co-anglers in the elites but that they would continue to have co-anglers in the open tourneys. They polled a few of the Elite pros and most were quite happy as you can imagine. Here is a link to the schedule and the co-angler stories. Schedule link http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/tournaments/news/story?id=3488400 Co-angler link http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/fishing/news/story?id=3492085 | ||||||||||||
| Texfisher
Bass Username: Texfisher Post Number: 765 Registered: 8-2004  Rating: N/A |
Interesting. I wonder if they are trying to spread the wealth with the tournaments and thought the two lakes were too close to each other. They could of done one each year though. For the co-angler exclusion I would imagine that would make them happy. I'm sure a co-angler has helped a pro more than once discover a pattern that changed their luck. It will be interesting to see if there is any fallout with the change. If you're richer than me I think we're related. If you're poorer than me I know we're related. My bass club webpage http://texbass.8m.com/ 
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| Basshunter
Bluegill Username: Basshunter Post Number: 152 Registered: 1-2007  Rating: N/A |
How can alienating some of your biggest fans be positive for the sport? Attendance at weigh-in will be down since a lot of spectaters (wifes, kids, co-workers, friends) where there for the co-anglers. Bass fishing on TV in 2010 will look like Pro Bowling due to the fan base being alienated. The approach of keeping the fans away from the anglers will not be popular and then it will start to effect sponsorship because no one will be watching. We live in a highly visable touchy feely society with today's athletes. Sorry but I don't want to be looking through the Hubble telescope to see what is going on with KVD. This is a precedent that will filter down the ranks to the ABA & Federation events and then start alienating non-boaters all together. This will only hurt the sport and start a downward trend with sport angling in the future. I guess the Pro's will want to keep the locals off the lakes while they are there fishing next. Way to go BASS, your letting the tail wag the dog! (Message edited by basshunter on July 17, 2008) | ||||||||||||
| Rumbanator
Bluegill Username: Rumbanator Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2006 Rating: N/A |
They did mention something about observers riding with the pro's. | ||||||||||||
| Dru
Crappie Username: Dru Post Number: 500 Registered: 2-2005  Rating: N/A |
"I guess the Pro's will want to keep the locals off the lakes while they are there fishing next." I hope so. I've never understood the mindset behind scheduling a club tournament on the same weekend that an Elite Series event is being held. Other sports close public arenas to hold sporting events; I do not see why it would be a bad thing to provide a venue free of any outside influence. The reason the co-angler format was removed is to limit the impact from non-competitive factors. Co's affected the outcome of the tournament. BASS is not trying to alienate their fan base; they are trying to develop true competitive sport where pros can compete against pros without the help or hindrance from others. Professional Bass fishing is the only pro sport that has to deal with fans on the field, other anglers competing for the same goal, etc. Can you imagine the outrage of JR. fans if Picou drove his 75 impala onto the Texas Motor Speedway just as Dale was about to win the race? This will not trickle down to smaller events. Again, BASS with the support of the Pros, is trying to establish the Elite Series as truly elite. As far as sponsor money; can you imagine the impact on Skeeter Boats if the last day of the Classic, Alton arrived at his spot and a couple of guys in an aluminum boat were fishing the spot he caught most of his fish from. How would Skeeter react to "locals" hurting their investment in Alton? At this year's Classic, there were at least two local tournaments held on the final day of the tournament. The final Day??? I'm sure these same trails, that think it would be cool to fish next to the Classic Guys, also send letters to these same sponsors asking for support while totally ignoring the investment they have placed in their pro staff. What would have been the impact on Strike King and the Sexy Shad if someone local had followed KVD to his hot spot on Guntersville and kept him from winning that event? If ESPN wants to create a true professional sport, one that can compete for air time with some of the big time sports, then they need to at least treat it like a professional. As far as Lake Falcon, The Chamber of Commerce in Zapata has over extended its spending. There are even rumors of Bankruptcy although I have yet to confirm this. They did not make a bid for the Elite Series. It has nothing to do with the fish kill after last year’s event. BassZone.com 
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| Bigun
Lunker Username: Bigun Post Number: 1582 Registered: 8-2004  Rating: N/A |
Dru, I don't keep up with pro bass fishing at all but from the link above it sounds like the sponsors are not in favor of removing the co-angler But sounds like you are stating the opposite? Maybe I'm misreading. Shutting down public waterways would be a death blow to any support of any pro fishing tourney. Quit being a mad, little bald man! | ||||||||||||
| Basshunter
Bluegill Username: Basshunter Post Number: 153 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
This is not personal Dru but you don't get it..... Everything feeds from the top down, I sit in Federation & club meetings all the time where boaters don't want non-boaters with them. In the past we have been able to point to the Pro's, now that's gone and so will the non-boater in ALL events. This change can only do two things A) Improve boat sales or B) Discourage growth in the sport hhhhmmmmmmmmm let's see, gas is expensive, boats are expensive, tow vehicles are expensive, watching the Pro's put their boat in the water and standing around at weigh-ins just want be enough, so long fans. Tivo it, watch it by fast forwarding though the commercials and delete. You can't compare bass fishing to football, baseball, NASCAR, hockey but it used to be unique in that the average Joe could learn from the best not 20 feet away and discuss things as they happen. Not anymore.....everything will be censored or edited by the media. Hopefully the Pro's and BASS have it figured out but I think the FLW just got stronger. Maybe not with the anglers but with the fans...yep the ones that spend their hard earned money on the sponsors products. For the record: The Irving Bass Club has held events at Lake Fork for over 10 years. When the PAA came to town they scheduled their event on the same date, out of respect the IBC moved their tournament so that the fans would not have to make a choice between fishing or watching the Pro's.........next time the vote might be different, it will be for me! (Message edited by basshunter on July 17, 2008) (Message edited by basshunter on July 17, 2008) | ||||||||||||
| Ozziefish
Bass Username: Ozziefish Post Number: 880 Registered: 8-2004  Rating: N/A |
Dru, I think BASS should have (if they didn't) respectfully ask the other tournament to change there dates out of respect for the Elites. Asking doesn't hurt. No one from PAA asked or even acknowledged that IBC moved there Open (out of respect for PAA) FYI, this tournament has been on the same date for 20 years! Media is now scheduling there Fork tournament on the same day as IBC Opens...I guess there is no respect for other long standing tournaments...or any tournament for that matter. OzzieFish "Glory to GOD in the Highest" | ||||||||||||
| Picou
Wall Hanger Username: Picou Post Number: 3104 Registered: 8-2004  Rating: N/A |
Good debate guys and Dennis, thanks for the immediate clarification that you are not attacking Dru personally. These discussions can quickly turn into a perceived personal attack and you made it clear this is not an attack. Now about the issue -- no co-anglers in the boat... I can see where this could have a negative impact on the fan participation at Elite Series events. I can also see where the trickle down effect will potentially impact lower levels of bass competition. Future growth of the sport is heavily dependant on the non-boater. Alienate them now and they will not participate later. In my opinion, the Elite Series should have never had co-anglers in the boat to start with. If I am not mistaken, the first year they did this pro series there was only an observer -- the year they came to Lewisville. The next year they changed the format to the Elite Series and included a co-angler as an attempt to draw in more fans -- it worked. Well, now that the box is opened they are hurting themselves by closing it. I have a lot more to say about this topic but unfortunately I don't have the bandwidth to type it. In summary, if BASS does not provide a way for the fans to participate with the anglers then they will see the impact in the bottom line. They should have another, shorter series that does include co-anglers and is different from a points perspective than the Elite series. This gives the fans what they desire and also gives the pros what they desire. The money flows up in the professional fishing industry. As fas as the public water debate... The key word in that debate is "PUBLIC" and until they want to pay for the private locations it can never change. To my knowledge, there are no other professional sports which hold their events on public property other than speed boat races. They close the course off to public traffic for safety purposes so that is understood but they do not close off the entire body of water. I wish they would close off the take-off area from the public for these professional fishing events because it is extremely dangerous at take-off with all of the spectator boats. Anyway, good discussion guys.  Thank you Lord for my family and the waters I get to fish
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| Dru
Crappie Username: Dru Post Number: 501 Registered: 2-2005 Rating: N/A |
Beth Paige (sp) the location of next year's US Open is a Public Golf Course. I was not and am not taking this personal but this is something I do feel strongly about. Wade, I do not believe it will ever happen, well except down in your neck of the woods where the water is patroled by air-boat driving, gun-wielding swamp rats.  Harold Allen "The Legend" was run out of the area he was fishing during the Classic Ike won, by a couple of guys in an air-boat shooting a shot gun around. I do believe that the only way to truly see who is the best, the real reason for competition, is to take every possible factor out of the equation except the pro angler. I applaud the IBC for rescheduling and in that instance I do not think it was necessary. The PAA event is more of a spectacle than a true tournament. Dennis, I do not think this will trickle down. Like I said above, this is done for one reason and that is to elevate the Elite series to an Elite status. The club tournaments, draw tournaments and most any other trail will have to have boaters and non-boaters. I should say that I fished the Toledo Bend BASS event as a co-angler and drew Pete Gluszeck and Brian Snowden. Brian was leading after day one and caught 20+ pounds when I was with him to keep the lead. Day three, the tournament moved to the off limits area (another format I wish they would bring back) and Brian could not hold on for the win. I started a relationship with Brian on the water and to this day we are friends. I have a good friend (for almost 12 years now) that I met as a non-boater in my first Red Man event. It took me under his wing and helped me develop my fishing abilities. I have nothing against the co or non-boater. In fact I think it should be a requirement that before you fish from the front of the boat, you should spend time in the back. How many of you have fished as co-angler in a BASS Tour event? How many of the fans? At most there are about 1000 co-anglers a year on the Tour. I believe that figure to be high, but for arguments sake let’s stick with 1000. So over the last ten years (and remember the Tour just went to the 11 event season a couple of years ago) there have been at most 10,000 co’s. Now when ESPN bought BASS it was established that Bassmaster Magazine had 500,000 subscribers. As you can see, the co makes up just a small part of the fan base. Also, I believe the coverage will be better now as more camera crews can be utilized. You are still going to have the pro doing his off-water responsibilities and promoting his sponsors products. You are still going to see what techniques and lures are working best. The boat manufactures should be the only ones upset, although it might be tempered by a short term increase in sales, 1000 demo rides have just gone away. FLW was created for one reason and that is to sell Ranger Boats. Partnering with Wal-Mart has allowed them to raise pay-outs and open avenues to further promote their products. The FLW anglers and the FLW Tour as a whole continue to fight for credibility. You have seen the rules change in an attempt gain the legitimacy FLW is lacking, i.e. limited practice. I do not believe this will affect the fan base either. I have not been to a regular season event and my opinion is based on attending 4 Classics and hearing about the sooner run. The fans that poured into the weigh-in area at Grand Lake and stood for hours in the rain to get Iaconelli and Aaron Martens autograph were not (at least 99% were not) co-anglers or their relatives. They were fans of the guys fishing. The only way the fan base would be hurt by this decision is from the knee-jerk reactions and public bashing of BASS and the pros. Again, we are supposed to be talking about a professional sport. At the Classic there are no co-anglers and yet we continually see record crowds at the weigh-ins. Mike, the original Elite 50s were a reward to the top 50 anglers with the highest 3 year average in AOY points. I was an addition to the regular season tour. They renamed the tour to the Elite Series and changed the format of the Elite 50's to what was known as the majors. Again, the majors were a reward for the best anglers an no co-anglers. You still have the Opens and I would not be surprised to see a smaller (in terms of payout) tour started by BASS. But, and this is the crux of the issue, the Elite Series should be •••• near impossible to get into and amazingly difficult to stay. It should be Elite!!! I think it should be based on your ability to catch fish, although some guys will survive on the ability to sell products. Remember, we are talking about anglers that are supposed to be the best in the world. They should at the very least be given the opportunity to prove it. BassZone.com
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| Picou
Wall Hanger Username: Picou Post Number: 3106 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
I had a feeling you would get me on some "GOLF" game. Golf does not count, it is not a sport... I agree that the Elite series should be a "no co-angler" format. But... the fact that it has been a co-angler participation event and they are now yanking the co-anglers out of the boat makes it a tougher sell. Removing the opportunity from people is what is going to hurt them. I have fished draw tournaments before and I do not like the format. Fortunately for me, I made some friends who fished from the back of my boat during that time. But, no matter what anyone says, the co-angler in the back of the boat makes a difference in your fishing unless you are a butt head with no concern for other people. Put me in the boat alone and I fish different than with someone else in the boat. I reitterate, BASS taking away something from the fan base will hurt them unless they provide an alternative for the fans. The perception of being treated unfair will be felt by many -- including those who never wanted to be a co-angler. Remember, my point is that BASS is taking something away from the fans. Thank you Lord for my family and the waters I get to fish
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| Basshunter
Bluegill Username: Basshunter Post Number: 154 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I have fished a BASS event and will be fishing the Central Open on Texoma. Your point about co-anglers & numbers is good but there are thousands that get turned away for each one that gets signed up for each event. Maybe it's part of the mystique that keeps everyone wanting to be in the back of a Pro's boat. I can't help but believe this will trickle down to the Federation & club level, it all ready exist. The main thing pro bass fishing had was the uniqueness of co-anglers. It does not have live television coverage, it does not have every lap, every pitch, every homerun, every touchdown, every goal or every putt on TV. It has edited / censored highlights and a bunch of fake drama imposed on the weigh-in process. I guess the pros will be viewed as Elite amongst all us pee-ons./ I hope in the end Disney, BASS and the Pros understand who pays their paycheck. In the end today's bass fishing on TV is almost as fun to watch as the Walton's. I can't wait until Will Ferrell stars in "The Elite Bassmasters" My rant is over and I just threw my backseat in the lake.  | ||||||||||||
| Worst_fisherman_in_texas
Minnow Username: Worst_fisherman_in_texas Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2008 Rating: N/A |
lol, if fishing from the back of the boat makes you a better fisherman, I should be a pro by now! Thanks for pointing out how bad I really am!!! (How do you get the smileys to show?) Speaking of Bethpage, it might as well be private, have you ever tried to get a tee time there? Geez, I have a better shot at playing the TPC in Las Colinas. (need another smiley) I can see both sides of this argument. Just call me the "Fence Rider". Scott T | ||||||||||||
| Picou
Wall Hanger Username: Picou Post Number: 3107 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
Just type a ":" then a ")" with no space between them and it will be a std smily face. Thank you Lord for my family and the waters I get to fish
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| Charles
Moderator Username: Charles Post Number: 1116 Registered: 7-2004 Rating: N/A |
Good debate! Now let me try the smiley thingy ":"nospace) hope it works! | ||||||||||||
| Bigun
Lunker Username: Bigun Post Number: 1583 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
Lousiana is the exception to public waters and the reason I did not figure BASS would be back. Certain open waters are private under La law and trespassing is enforceable by law. It is very confusing and you technically are suppose to know if you are suppose to be on the water or not. This is what the the swamp rat was ranting about. They were fishing on his property. The Redfish tourney are having a big issue with this La law currently from what I'm hearing. As far as the co-anglers, BASS will be auctioning offthe observer spot off to the die hard fan on EBAY. Quit being a mad, little bald man! | ||||||||||||
| Ozziefish
Bass Username: Ozziefish Post Number: 881 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
Just a hunch here but I think nothing will happen and the fan base will continue as normal...Us fisherman will go for anything...Ever purchase a Lucky Craft crank bait for $15.00 freakin dollars...we'll be there watching them when they come to town! Did I mention that IBC opens are now Triton Gold!!! Smiley Face I did it Hey, Hows Billy(co-angler)gonna get into the Elite Series from the back of Kay's boat... OzzieFish "Glory to GOD in the Highest" | ||||||||||||
| Picou
Wall Hanger Username: Picou Post Number: 3108 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
Who in their right mind would run a Triton????? Thank you Lord for my family and the waters I get to fish
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| Basshunter
Bluegill Username: Basshunter Post Number: 155 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
(Message edited by basshunter on July 17, 2008) (Message edited by basshunter on July 17, 2008) | ||||||||||||
| Texfisher
Bass Username: Texfisher Post Number: 767 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
I think the pro anglers applaude the change since they are the ones paying the outrageous entry fees and trying to make a living based on how well they can catch fish. I know if I was paying that kind of money I would want as even of a playing field as possible. I've never fished as a co-angler or even fished anything other than club or local jackpot tournaments so I don't have much experience on it. I know it won't effect me watching them on Saturday mornings. I only watch to see how the pros do. The only co-angler I look out for is Mary Delgado. This is a good debate though. Nice read while I'm working. If you're richer than me I think we're related. If you're poorer than me I know we're related. My bass club webpage http://texbass.8m.com/
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| Basshunter
Bluegill Username: Basshunter Post Number: 156 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Your Skeeter don't want any of this Picou   | ||||||||||||
| Picou
Wall Hanger Username: Picou Post Number: 3109 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oh.... Your one of... them.... Ok... one person in his right mind... Thank you Lord for my family and the waters I get to fish
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| Dru
Crappie Username: Dru Post Number: 502 Registered: 2-2005 Rating: N/A |
Nice boat Dennis. Mark will be fishing the final BASS event of the year as a co-angler. He will provide a complete wrap up of the tournament from the back of the boat. I wanted to fish the Central Open at Texoma but I will be in the woods of Colorado. Hopefully, Vince will finish high enough to make the Elites. I headed to the lake to fish from the back of Vince's boat. Everyone have a good weekend. BassZone.com
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| Redskeeter
Moderator Username: Redskeeter Post Number: 265 Registered: 8-2007  Rating: N/A |
Golly, you guys ALL make some very good points. It really doesn't matter too me one way or the other what the final out come will be with or without a Co-angler .. My interest is in the PRO's, their the one's I want too see not some dip sheet back seater wanta be.. I was afforded a rare opportunity in the latest Skeeter Owners tourney. I won a spot not bought or randomly drawn, to fish with a Elite Pro in the Skeeter Bug shoot out last June. We fished my waters for the duration of the 2-hour event, now you know why we did so badly.. After the fishing was done we were staged in a holding area waiting to do the drive thru weigh-in for approx 1.hr-45 mins. In that time, I spoke to and hung out with all of the 10-elite guys competing. The question of CO - No CO. came up, and I asked if some one in the back seat had any effect on the out come of any tournament they've competed in.. The vast majority said yes with out question, immediately. The feelings I got from this small sampling of Elite pro's was they'd much rather compete head to head against one another with out any outside interference.. Local Tournaments being scheduled on the same day/days the Elite series is on the water is an easy fix. I'm surprised it isn't being done nation wide already. From talking with several gents from Kansas and surrounding States they must pull a permit to hold a tournament on any lake in their state. It's a nominal charge one that has very little effect on the pay-outs-So I'm told. In doing that, the water board can regulate the amount of pressure and reduce the amount of multiple events on the lake at any time. The TD's for the tournament also have their equipment checked for condition, capacity, and compliance with state codes.. A good idea in my opinion, by doing this tournament over laps can be avoided and the fly by night operations will have to comply or fail... OZZIE QUOTE..... ***Hey, Hows Billy(co-angler)gonna get into the Elite Series from the back of Kay's boat...**** LOL...... OZ you crack me up.. Congrats on the Gold brother.. Thumbs up... (Message edited by redskeeter on July 20, 2008) KBD Fishing | ||||||||||||
| Ozziefish
Bass Username: Ozziefish Post Number: 882 Registered: 8-2004 Rating: N/A |
I'm sure one day the permit issue will be enforced here in Texas. I'm on the fence about it but one thing that is good is tournaments will have to take better care of the fish by game wardens inspecting the tanks at weight-ins. OzzieFish "Glory to GOD in the Highest" |
